ON 6th of June 1966, an engineer came to see the Mother along with his family. By the time he arrived. Mother was explaining to someone there how the worship of the form can serve as the means of mind-control. The engineer straight away entered the discussion during which Mother expounded the rationale of worship and allied topics.
VISITOR: How can those who reject worship of form attain the self discipline?
MOTHER: Perhaps by their rejection they mean that idols are not necessarily the only means; they stick to one form or the other mentally. Even a flag is an emblem, a form! Some people reject all forms and con centrate on the void; but even that is a form, some→ thing that is constantly remembered.
V: Then is not idol worship a sin and a mistake?
M: I do not call anything sinful or evil. I never ask anyone to desist from any action. Whatever one can do, I call it. right. I do not disapprove of even murder.
V: But it is said that Good and Evil do exist.
M: There is the difference between great and small; such is this and the other qualities like good and evil, right and wrong. Duality is always there.
V: Then do you mean that everyone should do whatever he pleases?
M: If he can do whatever he pleases, what is greater than that! If one can kill. let him kill a dozen persons a day; we shall see! Suppose one day someone prayed that his wealth be kept secure and that another prayed that he should be enabled to snatch that wealth, who should be denied?
If everyone can do whatever he wished to do, then nothing remains! Everything is done by some force call it Mind. Force, or God. The atheists might prefer to call it Nature.
V: But some believe that it is outside them!
M: Any belief is good. If you say that it is without, we are not able to comprehend it! We only see the bamboos, palm leaves and the pendal here but we do not comprehend the essence of all these which is one.
V: Do thoughts have power! M: Yes. But it is not in your hands to direct it. You know that thought occured to you only after its rise; but whence and how not known. Suppose that I felt like sitting and I sat: I am not able to comprehend how and why I felt so. All effort is but to see that infinite energy in a finite form. Form is finite and energy (Spirit) is Infinite. V But they say that the ability of the brain to think is god’s Gift!
M: Who is God? Of what kind is He? The power that is in all things is God. I don’t say that God is formless: 1 say that He is in all forms.
V: Who is next to God?
M: Even that is He! He is what you think you are!
V: They say that there are fourteen different worlds?
M: There are no fourteen worlds; all is one.
V: But so declare the Sastras!
M: Take these three rooms one behind the other, as an example. These three rooms have come to be only because there are the walls separating one from the other. When these seperations do not exist, all is one. The many do not exist for the one who is ALL.
V: But the same sastras that speak of the Sun and the planets speak of the fourteen worlds!
M: The worlds are parts of creation; ALL is creation. To the power that pervades ALL, so my worlds do not exist. For us they exist. Suppose you know what is happening in your native place. Then you do not feel either curious or anxious about it!
V: Is there any purpose behind all this (i.e, creation)?
M: Happening so is the purpose.
V: Is there any reason or cause for that?
M: The cause for that is above all causation. You can call it ‘Play’. or Nature’. Though nothing can be conclusively known about it. it is natural for the question to arise. We do not know the mind of our children-even those whom one has begot. It is not known why one thought should follow another.
V: Mother, I visited a great saint who induces trances to the devotees. These trances effect a radical change in mentality of the devotee for the better.
M: You request him on my behalf to grant me too!
V: Why do you need it?
M: I suffer from Duality viz., ‘Yes’ and ‘No’, good and evil. Right and wrong etc.
V: Then what is it that you teach us?
M: Not teaching anything is my teaching.
V: Then why are people rushing to see you?
M: Well then, why have you come?
V: Oh. I came because others are coming here (he pointed out his family).
M: But you came also when they did not come.
V: (After a few minutes of pondering) I cant say!
M: When you cant say why you came even after four or five visits, how can others say?
V: However much I think about it, I could not get at it.
M: How do you feel before coming here?
V: I wish to see you.
- It is the same with all; there is nothing that you gain from me There is nothing that I teach; no miracles take place. What do you feel after coming here? If it is true that you have come because they wanted you to come. then you must give up those habits which they want you to give up. Do you?
V: It is not in my power to do so! M: If you come to that then there is no question of your doing any thing because you had been asked to do. If you are really feeling that some other power is making you do (i.e to act), what more is needed?
V: I am not able to get rid of my anger. Mother!
M: Allow it to be.
V: But what’s the way to get rid of it?
M: It rests with Time; it leaves you when the ordained moment comes. Your anger would vanish when some one who is more irritable comes.
V: Both my subordinates and the superiors yield to my anger.
M: You direct your anger at those who are inferior to you in that respect. If someone who is more violent in his temper turns up, there will be nothing that you can do than to yield to him.
V: There is none who is more irritable than me. M: You said when you came earlier that you won’t live long. But you are alive!
V: The doctor said that I was allright. People performed special worship to deities and gave me an amulet and so the evil was warded off. That night you had appeared in my dream. M: I might have appeared even prior to that and even so I must have appeared on that day.
V: No you did not appear earlier.
M: I do not forget even though you forget. That day (i.e prio to the said day) you came along with Ramakrishna. On that occasion you told me that you came because you had seen me wearing a white sari in your dream.
V: All is Maya!
M: What is Maya?
V: What cannot be known.
M: What we can neither know or understand is Maya. V: According to the Theory of Advaita Realizing the Atman and becoming one with it….
M: Oh! I can’t understand those lofty terms. To merge in the self! With whose self does he realize the Self (ie, Atman)?
V: (Evading the question) I have been ailing all these days. I cant walk: one must walk to reach this village and gods dwell in all inaccessible places! (Mother listened to him smilingly.)
V: If a road is laid to Jillellamudi, and if this village is electrified many people would be coming here.
M: What if if they do not come? (Smiling) how did you come?
V: But when would they be laid (ie, road and Electricty)?
- It has already been laid. There is nothing that should be laid now. It is future for us and present for Him.
V: Then what are all the great teachers worth? Do you mean to say that they are futile? M: They do enjoin effective steps. But can we practice them? One cant follow them even though one knows that merit accrues to him therefrom. He can’t desist from evil even knowing that they make him a sinner.
V: Then how can he go to higher worlds?
M: We do not know whether, other worlds exist or not. deviding ‘good’ and ‘evil’ from our experience in this world. If this same thought, if it occurs to one it is a sin; if it occurs to another, it is not so. It is so with social customs. It is considered sinful for a woman to go without kunkum (or tilak) on the forehead. What’s wrong if it is not worn?
V: Then is it right to oppose the society?
M: It does not matter even if you oppose the society. but canyou?
V: How did these customs come to be?
M: Because they had been postulated. Where were these ideas before that? It all boils down to this. Where were these ideas at the beginning of creation? That first cause remains to be the cause of all that we do whether we affirm or deny the validity of sin and merit. That force is the cause of all this. What is the cause for the birth of man? They say that good deeds in one’s past life had won the human birth for him in the present one. What I say is that the one who is responsible for the origin of mankind is Himself responsible for all that we do. They say that Yogi Vemana was sinful and that he changed his ways later… they say that we should reach the one who is glorious as a million suns (i.e. God) and that good deeds take one to Him. To be able to do good in this life, one must have done good in the previous life; and that depends on what one has done in an earlier one. Like that there is always a previous birth to every birth. Let us concede that rebirth is a reality and that good and evil are real as well as heaven and hell. Can we do what is needed to earn merit? Can you kill merely because you are assured that it matters little even if you go to hell? These are not what can be ordered by word of mouth.
V: But Ramana Maharshi said ‘know thyself”! You teach us a way, Mother!
M: Yes; but can you do that because you are asked to do so? I also want that you should do so. I never say that you should not do. But I say that it is not you that can impel such actions. Because you had asked I shall tell you At what time do you wake up every morning?
V: At about O’Clock.
M: What will you do then?
V: I take tea.
M: All right. You must wake up precisely at 5 A.M. every day without being either late or soon by even a minute and take tea. Wherever you be and whatever be the circumstances don’t deviate from that. I am not asking you to do something that is quite new to you. It is after all what you do normally.
V: It’s very difficult, Mother! Perhaps I might wake up a bit late or perhaps my health might sometimes fail, or it may not be possible to do that when I got to some other place.
M: Then shall I tell you something else? Then tell me what else you do every day.
V: After the morning walk and bath. I write the Divine Name 108 times.
M: Then write the same name at precisely the same hour 1000 times.
While the visitor was pondering over the words of Mother, some visitors entered the hall and the conversation ended.